dante@sisna.com
Nov 1, 11:02 AM
Oops! This makes me change my mind about buying this Fall:
"HP, and other OEMs, should have Clovertown gear ready on the 14th. Our sources inside HP say the chip is eating between 140 watts and 150 watts..." :eek:
"Intel hopes to deliver less power hungry parts in short order. CEO Paul Otellini has talked about 50W and 80W Clovertown parts set for the early part of 2007 (http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/09/26/intel_quad-core_roadmap/)." :)
Guess I'm gonna have to be a little more patient a little longer in that case. That will be after MacWorld Expo toward the end of January then. Oh well. So much for immediate gratification. ;) Looks like waiting for the 8-core to ship with Leopard will jive with the cooler less power hungry monsters as well.
Thanks for bursting my bubble. :( I can get back to the business of another longer term wait similar to the wait for Santa Rosa or the mobile C2D MBP that's shipping now after 10 months of mobile CDs. At least it won't be that much longer. :cool: Looks like Clovertown Rev. B will be worth waiting for as well.
My apologies to all who were negatively infected by my extreeme enthusiasm for the first Clovertown release before I understood this new information. I can wait. I know some of you can't.
And I also may change my mind again when/if Apple releases a hot version first. Maybe they'll pass on the 150 watt models. Or perhaps they have real good cooling figured out. But I think I'd rather be ecological and buy what consumes less power anyway - especially in light of only another 2-3 months time.
Thanks to all who have invested time to collect and share information on Clovertons.
I have a couple of G5 Quads I was going to upgrade to Clovertons as well. Now, after viewing this short, but informative thread, I too, will wait until Mid-2007 and make the giant leap.
Appreciate everyone's efforts and intelligence.
Dante
CreativeBeans
"HP, and other OEMs, should have Clovertown gear ready on the 14th. Our sources inside HP say the chip is eating between 140 watts and 150 watts..." :eek:
"Intel hopes to deliver less power hungry parts in short order. CEO Paul Otellini has talked about 50W and 80W Clovertown parts set for the early part of 2007 (http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/09/26/intel_quad-core_roadmap/)." :)
Guess I'm gonna have to be a little more patient a little longer in that case. That will be after MacWorld Expo toward the end of January then. Oh well. So much for immediate gratification. ;) Looks like waiting for the 8-core to ship with Leopard will jive with the cooler less power hungry monsters as well.
Thanks for bursting my bubble. :( I can get back to the business of another longer term wait similar to the wait for Santa Rosa or the mobile C2D MBP that's shipping now after 10 months of mobile CDs. At least it won't be that much longer. :cool: Looks like Clovertown Rev. B will be worth waiting for as well.
My apologies to all who were negatively infected by my extreeme enthusiasm for the first Clovertown release before I understood this new information. I can wait. I know some of you can't.
And I also may change my mind again when/if Apple releases a hot version first. Maybe they'll pass on the 150 watt models. Or perhaps they have real good cooling figured out. But I think I'd rather be ecological and buy what consumes less power anyway - especially in light of only another 2-3 months time.
Thanks to all who have invested time to collect and share information on Clovertons.
I have a couple of G5 Quads I was going to upgrade to Clovertons as well. Now, after viewing this short, but informative thread, I too, will wait until Mid-2007 and make the giant leap.
Appreciate everyone's efforts and intelligence.
Dante
CreativeBeans
Don't panic
Mar 15, 10:23 AM
Obviously, it wouln't be "all at once" and these types of things never happen in one single "foreign land". But history is wrought with many resettling of peoples, the Jews is just one example. This actually happens a lot for "unnatural" disasters like war and stuff.
If this situation blows up more and more, heck, humans haven't even dealt with such a potential disaster outcome before. It's actually purely "unnatural" at it's roots. There isn't any natural deposit of refined radioactive uranium/plutonium/whatever that we've encountered on earth before. This is purely man-made and is not supposed to exist. I mean, what is there to do in such a case? I know GM, Microsoft, Motorola et al may have a field day if the Japanese just disapeared, but hey, there's added value elsewhere that many nations would value in having their human and physical assets close.
i can't believe i am even answering this, and i am bewildered by the fact that you might actually be seriously thinking what you are writing.
anyway, even the worst case scenario -a complete meltdown of all four reactors- is not even remotely close to the apocalyptic pictures you have in mind.
'japan' is not going to 'blow up' or to be reduced to a barren wasteland forever.
in the worst case scenario (which is very unlikely to occur), a small area will be heavily contaminated and a larger area will be moderately or lightly contaminated.
tens or hundreds of people will get sick in the short term, and more would be at risk in the long term, a lot of people will have to evacuate to a safer distance from the reactor, and the economic cost of the clean up (and the recostruction in the tsunami-devastated areas) would be tremendous.
but how you go from there to "japan is history" is mindboggling.
If this situation blows up more and more, heck, humans haven't even dealt with such a potential disaster outcome before. It's actually purely "unnatural" at it's roots. There isn't any natural deposit of refined radioactive uranium/plutonium/whatever that we've encountered on earth before. This is purely man-made and is not supposed to exist. I mean, what is there to do in such a case? I know GM, Microsoft, Motorola et al may have a field day if the Japanese just disapeared, but hey, there's added value elsewhere that many nations would value in having their human and physical assets close.
i can't believe i am even answering this, and i am bewildered by the fact that you might actually be seriously thinking what you are writing.
anyway, even the worst case scenario -a complete meltdown of all four reactors- is not even remotely close to the apocalyptic pictures you have in mind.
'japan' is not going to 'blow up' or to be reduced to a barren wasteland forever.
in the worst case scenario (which is very unlikely to occur), a small area will be heavily contaminated and a larger area will be moderately or lightly contaminated.
tens or hundreds of people will get sick in the short term, and more would be at risk in the long term, a lot of people will have to evacuate to a safer distance from the reactor, and the economic cost of the clean up (and the recostruction in the tsunami-devastated areas) would be tremendous.
but how you go from there to "japan is history" is mindboggling.
reel2reel
Apr 15, 09:50 AM
That's awesome.
Humans can be some nasty creatures.
Yep, this hate is dying off. Demographics are destiny. Younger people, writ large, are not homophobic or anti-gay.
But they're still pretty good at hating and excluding for other reasons. Some things never change, unfortunately.
Humans can be some nasty creatures.
Yep, this hate is dying off. Demographics are destiny. Younger people, writ large, are not homophobic or anti-gay.
But they're still pretty good at hating and excluding for other reasons. Some things never change, unfortunately.
fat phil
Apr 13, 09:28 AM
The product looks good for what it is, and I read most of the comments here... while I'm not a video guy I am an artist and IT professional and I do have to agree that Apple is strangely moving away from the core pro market that was very loyal. I have seen more and more artists move back to PCs lately and even though I have been moving the other direction, I can't fully blame them.
I know Apple has a plan and they stick to their guns, but I just think they may be shooting themselves in the foot by going so fully consumer market. Avid has a lot more as far as hardcore features and scalability. Apple has basically dropped their server line and they are on a path of dumbing down many apps to fit a more iPad/App market. They are still powerful and "pro" apps but much of the scalability and truly "pro" features seem to be dwindling day by day. That's my concern.
I don't think they're deliberately setting out to hurt the Pro users in this case - they genuinely think they've found a better way to work. If it's true then it's all good.
Even if they were trying to open up the userbase, it doesn't take Stephen Hawkins to figure out why they'd want to.
2,000,000 Pro users @ $600
or
10,000,000 "casual" users + 2,000,000 Pro users @ $300
Yeah. I'd do it too...:)
I know Apple has a plan and they stick to their guns, but I just think they may be shooting themselves in the foot by going so fully consumer market. Avid has a lot more as far as hardcore features and scalability. Apple has basically dropped their server line and they are on a path of dumbing down many apps to fit a more iPad/App market. They are still powerful and "pro" apps but much of the scalability and truly "pro" features seem to be dwindling day by day. That's my concern.
I don't think they're deliberately setting out to hurt the Pro users in this case - they genuinely think they've found a better way to work. If it's true then it's all good.
Even if they were trying to open up the userbase, it doesn't take Stephen Hawkins to figure out why they'd want to.
2,000,000 Pro users @ $600
or
10,000,000 "casual" users + 2,000,000 Pro users @ $300
Yeah. I'd do it too...:)
skunk
Apr 27, 01:51 PM
The Judaeo-Christian God has certain attributes which I listed. Does this Ugaritic God share the same attributes, ie omniscience, omnipotence, omnibenevolence?You can give a god any attributes you want.
Macky-Mac
Mar 26, 08:56 PM
We will ride out this storm just as we rode out the last, the one before that etc
there's no reason why the church can't continue for their believers if it learns to respect the rights of those who don't believe in its teachings
there's no reason why the church can't continue for their believers if it learns to respect the rights of those who don't believe in its teachings
firestarter
Mar 14, 06:45 PM
Would that be an "unearthly" green choice? As in "glow-in-the-dark"?
Well he seems to think (http://www.ecolo.org/media/articles/articles.in.english/love-indep-24-05-04.htm) that the alternative of burning hydrocarbons is quite bad in itself...
the Earth is already so disabled by the insidious poison of greenhouse gases that even if we stop all fossil fuel burning immediately, the consequences of what we have already done will last for 1,000 years. Every year that we continue burning carbon makes it worse for our descendants and for civilisation.
I guess keeping warm is more expensive than keeping cool. I thought their insulation was so much better. :confused:
Over 80% of Icelandic electricity is from renewables, so they might be forgiven high use of it.
I suspect that the 'electrical energy per capita' figures may include industrial use. Apparently (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Iceland) Aluminium smelting is quite a big industry in Iceland - and this is a very heavy user of electricity.
I wonder how somewhere like the UK compares to the US. While the US figures seem much larger than ours, we probably have a much more ubiquitous gas distribution network. Perhaps our burning of gas in the home would be interesting to compare to US AC use?
Well he seems to think (http://www.ecolo.org/media/articles/articles.in.english/love-indep-24-05-04.htm) that the alternative of burning hydrocarbons is quite bad in itself...
the Earth is already so disabled by the insidious poison of greenhouse gases that even if we stop all fossil fuel burning immediately, the consequences of what we have already done will last for 1,000 years. Every year that we continue burning carbon makes it worse for our descendants and for civilisation.
I guess keeping warm is more expensive than keeping cool. I thought their insulation was so much better. :confused:
Over 80% of Icelandic electricity is from renewables, so they might be forgiven high use of it.
I suspect that the 'electrical energy per capita' figures may include industrial use. Apparently (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Iceland) Aluminium smelting is quite a big industry in Iceland - and this is a very heavy user of electricity.
I wonder how somewhere like the UK compares to the US. While the US figures seem much larger than ours, we probably have a much more ubiquitous gas distribution network. Perhaps our burning of gas in the home would be interesting to compare to US AC use?
DMann
Sep 26, 01:11 AM
8 cores ought to be enough for anybody. true, what would you do with extra cores? simply overkill.
Eight cores, with hyper threading active would dramatically reduce
rendering times, making production a whole lot faster and
more efficient. This is truly something to be psyched about!
Eight cores, with hyper threading active would dramatically reduce
rendering times, making production a whole lot faster and
more efficient. This is truly something to be psyched about!
Peterkro
Mar 12, 08:04 PM
Another 6.2 offshore 180K east from Tokio.
If you'd like more info or just to feed your nuclear paranoia look here:
http://twitter.com/arclight#
If you'd like more info or just to feed your nuclear paranoia look here:
http://twitter.com/arclight#
ender78
Oct 25, 11:27 PM
What I see Apple doing is milking their pricing agreements with Intel. The only reason that I can see Apple sticking out so long with Core Duo is that after the Core 2 Duo processors were released, Intel cut prices on the older chips. Intel's manufacturing pipelines are short [announce processor , produce, move on]. Apple must have gotten a great deal on the older Duos [I know they are not old processors, just no longer top of the line].
What did Apple have to loose by delaying the introduction of the Core 2 Duo [the sales of 10 machines whose sales went to Dell?]. I suspect that anyone that held out for the Core 2 Duo, bought one in the last two days, and did not go to a competitor. Let's not forget that while every other vendor may have announced a Core 2 Duo notebook in the last two months, Apple likely took more orders in the last two days, than some of those vendors have had in the last two months. Apple now has the x86 pipeline open to them, they will make a move when it benefits them financially, and not before.
I personally expect the the 8 Core machine at Macworld. There is little reason for Apple to release the machine before then. I'm itching for a Quad but can easily wait [especially since I do not expect a price premium on the machine, the next processor will cost little more than the four core version today]. I am also hoping to see Leopard at Macworld.
What did Apple have to loose by delaying the introduction of the Core 2 Duo [the sales of 10 machines whose sales went to Dell?]. I suspect that anyone that held out for the Core 2 Duo, bought one in the last two days, and did not go to a competitor. Let's not forget that while every other vendor may have announced a Core 2 Duo notebook in the last two months, Apple likely took more orders in the last two days, than some of those vendors have had in the last two months. Apple now has the x86 pipeline open to them, they will make a move when it benefits them financially, and not before.
I personally expect the the 8 Core machine at Macworld. There is little reason for Apple to release the machine before then. I'm itching for a Quad but can easily wait [especially since I do not expect a price premium on the machine, the next processor will cost little more than the four core version today]. I am also hoping to see Leopard at Macworld.
Multimedia
Jul 12, 04:24 PM
man, my head is spinning...Yonah, Mermon, Woodcrest, Core Duo 2 (isn't that redundant?)
Don't you just long for the good old days when we'd get one G4 processor for 18 months? ;)In A Word NO. There is nothing complicated about understanding Intel's Processor line. Only lazy consumers unwilling to read anything.
All the details have been spoon fed to us for months by generous meembers here. I see no excuse for not know the differences by now and why what belongs where.
Don't you just long for the good old days when we'd get one G4 processor for 18 months? ;)In A Word NO. There is nothing complicated about understanding Intel's Processor line. Only lazy consumers unwilling to read anything.
All the details have been spoon fed to us for months by generous meembers here. I see no excuse for not know the differences by now and why what belongs where.
iliketyla
Apr 22, 04:39 PM
I didn't know you were still here.
So all those people telling you that stealing is bad and everything just flew over your head, eh?
And you post rubbish like... well like your post?
I don't know much about you, but whatever you do in the future (or maybe now) when people steal stuff from you, I'm sure you would be OK... or is that considered bad because you're not as rich as Kanye?
Who even are you?
So all those people telling you that stealing is bad and everything just flew over your head, eh?
And you post rubbish like... well like your post?
I don't know much about you, but whatever you do in the future (or maybe now) when people steal stuff from you, I'm sure you would be OK... or is that considered bad because you're not as rich as Kanye?
Who even are you?
Michaelgtrusa
Mar 13, 12:47 PM
More people have died in hydroelectric or coal generated power production. Nuclear is relatively safe and clean.
...but if a coal plant blows it's over soon, if a nuke plant blows it's over in 250 thousand years.
...but if a coal plant blows it's over soon, if a nuke plant blows it's over in 250 thousand years.
alex_ant
Oct 9, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by Abercrombieboy
Alex ant has made some good points on why Macs are a poor buy. They are so much slower and less stable then PC's these days according to everything I read.
Macs aren't a poor buy, though... they're only a poor buy if your primary concern is maximum performance. I doubt they're any less stable than PCs. They are slower, but in my experience they are much more enjoyable computers to use. You will have to weigh your need for performance against this.
Alex ant has made some good points on why Macs are a poor buy. They are so much slower and less stable then PC's these days according to everything I read.
Macs aren't a poor buy, though... they're only a poor buy if your primary concern is maximum performance. I doubt they're any less stable than PCs. They are slower, but in my experience they are much more enjoyable computers to use. You will have to weigh your need for performance against this.
TimUSCA
Apr 28, 07:57 AM
It will be. This is just barely scratching the surface.
I don't want a full OS in a tablet like the iPad. The beauty of iOS that you don't ever need to worry about file placement. Limited functionality might be nice, but a full OS like OS X on a tablet is the wrong way to go.
I don't want a full OS in a tablet like the iPad. The beauty of iOS that you don't ever need to worry about file placement. Limited functionality might be nice, but a full OS like OS X on a tablet is the wrong way to go.
r.j.s
May 2, 11:26 AM
You mean like the OS X pop up that asks for your password for the umpteenth time ? ;)
Users are as conditioned to just enter it on OS X as they are on clicking Allow on Windows.
Huge difference in my experience. The Windows UAC will pop up for seemingly mundane things like opening some files or opening applications for the first time, where as the OS X popup only happens during install of an app - in OS X, there is an actual logical reason apparent to the user. It is still up to the user to ensure the software they are installing is from a trusted source, but the reason for the password is readily apparent.
Users are as conditioned to just enter it on OS X as they are on clicking Allow on Windows.
Huge difference in my experience. The Windows UAC will pop up for seemingly mundane things like opening some files or opening applications for the first time, where as the OS X popup only happens during install of an app - in OS X, there is an actual logical reason apparent to the user. It is still up to the user to ensure the software they are installing is from a trusted source, but the reason for the password is readily apparent.
danielwsmithee
Apr 15, 10:01 AM
Bullying is an epidemic much like family violence, spousal abuse, child abuse etc, they are all gifts that keep on giving ... most of the bullies out there are suffering their own self esteem problems and have often been bullied, abused or neglected themselves.
I once held extreme hatred for a particular bully at my school. Then many of the details of his family life showed up in the local paper. It changed my perspective a little.
If people really want to stop or limit bullying we need to extend friendship to all both the bullies and the bullied and make it clear which behaviors are not appropriate.
I once held extreme hatred for a particular bully at my school. Then many of the details of his family life showed up in the local paper. It changed my perspective a little.
If people really want to stop or limit bullying we need to extend friendship to all both the bullies and the bullied and make it clear which behaviors are not appropriate.
Macnoviz
Sep 26, 05:08 AM
So, first it was the number of transistors per processor, then they coupled that with higher clock speeds (MHz) and now with multi-cores inside multi-processors.
Is there a limit to such growth with the current technology?
Anything after that? The optical computer that works with light instead of electricity and thus does not heat soo much? Any roadmap?
Thanks.
How about Quantum computers?
Is there a limit to such growth with the current technology?
Anything after that? The optical computer that works with light instead of electricity and thus does not heat soo much? Any roadmap?
Thanks.
How about Quantum computers?
iJohnHenry
Apr 22, 09:55 PM
There is no way God can exist, bla bla bla...
OK, edify us, if you will.
The timeline of Christ is only 20 life-times, of a centenarian.
As against the age of Earth, it is but a microsecond.
OK, edify us, if you will.
The timeline of Christ is only 20 life-times, of a centenarian.
As against the age of Earth, it is but a microsecond.
bigwig
Oct 27, 06:01 PM
At the rate SGI is going, I could probably buy SGI myself for whatever is in my pocket within the next year. Talk about a company that failed to follow the industry and adapt with the times.
Probably true, and quite sad really. SGI was a heck of a company in its day. I'm not sure they could have adapted. Once everybody else abandoned MIPS SGI couldn't afford new processor revisions by themselves, and the false promise that was (and is) Itanium irrevocably doomed them. Itanium basically killed off all the competition when the Unix vendors all hopped on the Itanium bandwagon, and Intel's complete failure to deliver on Itanium's promises looks in hindsight to have been Intel's plan all along. Just think of the performance a MIPS cpu would have were it given the development dollars x86 gets.
No point in anyone buying them, the only thing keeping them afloat is the few tidbits of technology they've licensed over the years, which is all just about obsolete now anyway.
SGI's technology isn't so much obsolete (who else sells systems with the capacity of an Altix 4700?) as it is unnecessary. 4 CPU Intel machines do just fine for 99.9% of people these days, and the kind of problems SGI machines are good at solving are a tiny niche. That's not just number crunching, a big SGI machine has I/O capacity that smokes a PC cluster.
Probably true, and quite sad really. SGI was a heck of a company in its day. I'm not sure they could have adapted. Once everybody else abandoned MIPS SGI couldn't afford new processor revisions by themselves, and the false promise that was (and is) Itanium irrevocably doomed them. Itanium basically killed off all the competition when the Unix vendors all hopped on the Itanium bandwagon, and Intel's complete failure to deliver on Itanium's promises looks in hindsight to have been Intel's plan all along. Just think of the performance a MIPS cpu would have were it given the development dollars x86 gets.
No point in anyone buying them, the only thing keeping them afloat is the few tidbits of technology they've licensed over the years, which is all just about obsolete now anyway.
SGI's technology isn't so much obsolete (who else sells systems with the capacity of an Altix 4700?) as it is unnecessary. 4 CPU Intel machines do just fine for 99.9% of people these days, and the kind of problems SGI machines are good at solving are a tiny niche. That's not just number crunching, a big SGI machine has I/O capacity that smokes a PC cluster.
nozebleed
May 5, 10:51 AM
I still believe its just where you are at in the country. This graph is the exact opposite of what I experience. Verizon work phone - SHITE. Dropped calls so bad I forwarded the number to my iPhone. AT&T personal phone - no dropped calls.
spacemanspifff
Apr 6, 10:14 AM
Good stuff, Spaceman, very helpful.
Question: where can I go online to learn about some of these "more advanced" things? Not just the basic "Why a Mac?" videos, but the good stuff.
Probably the best place to start is on Apples own site, check out:
http://www.apple.com/uk/macosx/what-is-macosx/
I used to run Apple training courses for people switching from Windows to Mac and most people were very surprised how little was different. Remember Windows is a copy of the original Mac OS. Microsoft Word was a Mac app before it was available on a PC! Bill Gates only wrote windows because Apple wouldn't licence their system to run on the IBM systems of the day.
You won't really see the differences until you get to use the Mac yourself. But when you do, the best thing to do is just go with it. Don't try to think - how would a PC do this, just think - if I wanted to do this how would I logically do it and you'll find that 9 x out of 10 that is the way it "just works!"
Apple have designed the Mac OS to be very powerful, but also to get out of your way, there is a reason that they don't supply a manual with the Mac - you don't need one, it really is that good. Most users only scratch the surface of what the Mac OS can do [which is fine] and a lot of PC switchers fail to find the more productive features because they tend to think 'Oh the Mac doesn't do that' when it usually does. You just have to be prepared to change the way you do some things [usually for the better] and you'll be fine.
If you get stuck click the Help menu item and go from there. If you're still suck ask a question here, I'm sure we'll help out if we can.
Question: where can I go online to learn about some of these "more advanced" things? Not just the basic "Why a Mac?" videos, but the good stuff.
Probably the best place to start is on Apples own site, check out:
http://www.apple.com/uk/macosx/what-is-macosx/
I used to run Apple training courses for people switching from Windows to Mac and most people were very surprised how little was different. Remember Windows is a copy of the original Mac OS. Microsoft Word was a Mac app before it was available on a PC! Bill Gates only wrote windows because Apple wouldn't licence their system to run on the IBM systems of the day.
You won't really see the differences until you get to use the Mac yourself. But when you do, the best thing to do is just go with it. Don't try to think - how would a PC do this, just think - if I wanted to do this how would I logically do it and you'll find that 9 x out of 10 that is the way it "just works!"
Apple have designed the Mac OS to be very powerful, but also to get out of your way, there is a reason that they don't supply a manual with the Mac - you don't need one, it really is that good. Most users only scratch the surface of what the Mac OS can do [which is fine] and a lot of PC switchers fail to find the more productive features because they tend to think 'Oh the Mac doesn't do that' when it usually does. You just have to be prepared to change the way you do some things [usually for the better] and you'll be fine.
If you get stuck click the Help menu item and go from there. If you're still suck ask a question here, I'm sure we'll help out if we can.
AppleScruff1
Apr 29, 01:41 AM
Those days of "needing to run Windows" for work are behind us.
Not in many cases, but I'm glad it works for you.
Not in many cases, but I'm glad it works for you.
Hikkadwa
Apr 13, 02:24 AM
Based on the screenshots -This looks like its another car crash bit of software. I bet the guy who destroyed iMovie 06 has something to do with this. Lets just hope I'm wrong.
